It was announced last month that controversially Fred’s traction engine was going to be auctioned off. The auction house has now launched the on-line catalogue for the 24th July 2010 auction has it has these details of the traction engine.
Lot 1584
Details: On instructions from the beneficiaries and exors of the estate of Fred Dibnah MBE (Deccd)
1912 AVELING & PORTER LTD Class KND CONVERTIBLE TRACTION ENGINE
Engine No. 7838
Reg. No. TA2436
Weight: 10tons
Built: December 1912
Compound
One of the best known engines in the country having been owned and tirelessly restored by the late Fred Dibnah over 27 or so years and featured in the BBC TV series Made in Britainn. Its restoration having been enthusiastically documented through the various TV shows that Fred presented over two decades in television. There is nothing more to add here about Fred that has not already been said about one of the iconic figures in the steam preservation movement. It is clear though that the enthusiasm he amply displayed on TV is reflected in the restoration of this excellent traction engine. Engine No. 7838 was dispatched from Aveling & Porterss Rochester works in December 1912 to West Sussex County Council, together with 7836, 7837 and 7839 respectively. They were described on the build records as KND 4hp motor tractor and roller combinedd. 7838 was delivered on 4th December 1912 and was fitted with a two-tine scarifier No. 1256. It is believed that all four engines were identical and were supplied with a set of rolls and straked wheels. Aveling & Porter built more steam rollers than all the other manufacturers combined and also built traction engines, wagons and even a couple of pairs of steam ploughing engines. In producing a convertible engine capable of being used for both rolling and as a traction engine their product became more desirable particularly for larger organisations such as County Councils, who could keep their costs down by purchasing one engine capable of doing two jobs. It is believed that in 1916 No. 7838 was commandeered by the War Department and was subsequently acquired by Devon County Council after the war for use as a roller as Fleet No. 20 (dated 1927). By 1967 the engine had been laid up and was purchased by Peter Froud after it had been discovered in a layby. Fred acquired the engine from Peter Froud in 1979. Fred started restoration of this engine in tractor form with many new parts manufactured and produced by Fred in his workshop at his home in Bolton. The restoration of the engine was completed shortly before his death on 6th November 2004 following his 3 year fight against cancer but not before it had featured in the BBC TV Series Made in Britainn, which Fred presented. The engine is a tribute to Fredds perseverance and attention to detail which was evident in everything that he did. The engine was last used to pull Fredds coffin through Bolton to his funeral on 16th November 2004. It is understood that there is a current hydraulic test, which is due for renewal by 15th April 2011 and that the last boiler certificate expired in August 2005.
What is also interesting is that there are two other Fred related items in that same auction:
Lot 1048
Details: Tangye, Birmingham. Single cylinder high speed stationary steam engine, fitted with a centrifugal governor. It was rescued from a brewery in Warrington, probably Greenalls, by Fred Dibnah, who used it to drive a saw bench and stone cutting saw in his yard. It was apparently in working order when he died, but hasnnt run since
and
Lot 1047
D. Stewart, Glasgow. Double diagonal V form 2 cylinder stationary steam engine, in unrestored condition. It was the back-up engine for one that drove a machine that Fred Dibnahhs father operated at Stephen Glaister Ltd, Dyers and Finishers, of Bolton. It was sent to a scrap yard in 1985 from where Fred rescued it in 1996, with the intention of using it for underground winding in the pit shaft he was building.
I note that neither of the two latter items seem to be listed in connection with the “beneficiaries and exors of the estate of Fred Dibnah”, which makes it look like a private seller.
I would be interested to find out who selling these two Fred engines, anyone know?
So would I!!!
These two engines were removed from Fred’s yard by the Executor; therefore it is reasonable to assume the beneficiaries and executors of Fred’s Estate are selling these engines at auction on the 25th July? They were not reported stolen in the robbery which took place in late December 2006 or sold to anyone else at the time or since.
It would be pleasing for fans to see the return of Fred’s working stationary steam engine to the yard and particularly used to power the plant for the Heritage Centre. The engine originally used to power machines attached to the ‘line-shafting’ in the yard such as the ‘band saw’ and other items was known as ‘Caroline’ (named after Fred’s youngest daughter). This was the very ‘heart’ of the steam plant and this little prized engine was proudly housed and kept highly-polished in a tiny shed that had previously used by Fred to store his Triumph motorbike before his first marriage and still lived with his mum and dad.
I am informed by several people in the steam movement that a highly reliable source has stated categorically IN PUBLIC that this engine is NOT ‘Caroline’ – however, several similar sources are now suggesting it IS the same engine so some confusion has arisen which no doubt will rectify itself with the proper information available and known facts emerging once the auction has taken place and photographs of the engine in question are made obtainable and available to all interested parties. I am just stating the facts here and make no assumptions either way at this stage other than to merely add that the ‘Caroline’ engine was indeed very special to Fred so I cannot ever see anyone wanting to part with it unnecessarily, especially after the much-publicised upset caused by the trauma of having to sell the Aveling & Porter Tractor to settle the Estate dispute.
Thanks for extra the info Sheila.
If the Executor removed the engines then it’s reasonable to assume that they are selling it. It’s strange that they didn’t use the same wording as they did with the traction engine, but sometimes it’s easy to think human error as being something more than just that.
I would think that it would make more sense to bring a stationary engines ‘back’ to the Heritage Centre. While the traction engine may have a greater ‘wow factor’, being able to power the work shed with a working steam engine would bring much more atmosphere and also have less overhead than a traction engine.
If anyone can get photos from the auction please let me know.
hello sheila
I am one of fred’s fans I enjoyed you show at st helens I would like to see you some time
The auction is having viewing day tomorrow from 1pm-6pm. Let us know if you were able to go.
We were at the viewing yesterday, and the auction today. I believe the traction engine made 240k – but as it went to a telephone bidder I don’t know where it was headed, does any one know?
I’ve got a few pictures from the viewing day – please let me know if they would be of interest and where I can email these too. Thank you
Thanks for the info Philippa. I would love to publish the picture here if I may. Feel free to email them to joe (at) freddibnah.co.uk
Hi Joe,
I’ve sent the pictures over.
Thanks
Many thanks Philippa. I’ll post them right now.
Was the other bidder Mr Attkinson? It did look like him and it was said that it was ‘all in hand’ for the TT forum. LOL
Not sure who it was Tanya. This is his pic from the Youtube video posted of the bidding.The BBC have him named as Brian Whorton.The two stationary engines went for £2,800 and £1,400. Do we have confirmation of who sold them or who bought them?
Anyone hear any news about the two other stationary engines?
whats happened to freds landrover
Fred’s daughters have the landy.
hi
whats happened to fred’s living van and who has the Flintshire County Council No 3″ plate witch was stolen from Fred’s steam roller “BETSY”.
thank you
james
hi fred’s living van is at the fred dibnah herritage center at 121 radcliff road bolton.]
kierran
hi
it not there
thank you
james